Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis Pay Tribute to Clarence Avant: ‘He Helped Us Understand Our Value’

Grammy-winning songwriting/production duo Jimmy Jam & Terry Lewis first met Clarence Avant — who died Aug. 13 at age 92 — in the summer of 1982 when they wrote a song for his Tabu Records act, The S.O.S. Band. They famously went on to work with A&M artist Janet Jackson, for whom they produced the blockbuster 1986 album, Control, and its 1989 follow-up, Rhythm Nation 1814, among others.

The hitmakers paid tribute to Avant in an interview.

Jam: We wrote “High Hopes” for The S.O.S. Band. But we didn’t produce it. When we met with Clarence, we told him that. And he was like, “Well if you were to produce it, what would it sound like?” So we played him a demo of the song and he loved it.

Lewis: Yeah, we told him that we would have put the chili sauce on it. He cracked up; he really loved that comment.

Jam: I didn’t know a whole lot about Clarence before that meeting. But my first impression is of him making me laugh because he called us two thugs: “Who are these two thugs coming in here?” He’d get on a phone call and be cussing everybody out. He was just a character, so funny. It was like being in a movie: two kids from Minneapolis sitting in suits and hats in 90-degree weather, here in L.A.’s high-powered music scene. We were a hilarious anomaly to him.

Lewis: He was definitely funny and animated. But I knew he was shrewd and smart by the way he conducted the meeting; it was so comfortable and easy. It was different from other meetings we’d had with people wanting to hire us. But what really struck me is when Clarence talked to us by himself, without our manager. And he told us, “You motherf—ers need to learn to count. In order to make things happen the right way, you’re going to need this and that.” When he gave us more than we’d asked for, it established a whole new paradigm for me. He helped us reevaluate and understand what our value was. He put the official rubber stamp on it.

Jam: I’m glad his story got told in the Netflix documentary The Black Godfather. It only scratches the surface of Clarence’s greatness and influence. It should be required viewing as there will never be another Clarence in the singular sense. But there will be from all the seeds that he planted: a bunch of people with Clarence characteristics that will power positive growth across entertainment and other areas.

Lewis: Coming up through the ranks, fighting for everyone’s diversity and equity, it was important for Clarence to teach. His obsession was to do the right thing and force people who didn’t to do the right thing. That was what Clarence was always about. He was never about the rewards in it. I think Clarence was definitely pleased with his life. He had a beautiful wife and beautiful kids. He created some beautiful music as a label owner; inspired and crafted some beautiful deals. How could he not feel good about that? All we really have at the end of the day is our relationships. The one way that you can judge a person is by their relationships. And Clarence touched so many people in a beautiful way. Whether they were record company owners, presidents or executives, artists, politicians or just regular people. He touched everyone in a positive way.

Jam: One of the things we always tried to remind him of, though, were the connections that he had made that then led to other things that he didn’t know about … we were able to connect the dots for him. Like, “Did you know this happened because of this thing that you did five years ago?” Because he was involved in so many things, he couldn’t keep track of everything that he had possibly done. But I totally agree that he felt very comfortable with what he had done [in his life]. There were just so many people and things that he affected.

Jam: Clarence and Jerry [Moss] were also really good friends. As partners [in A&M Records], Herb Alpert and Jerry were certainly a blueprint for Terry and myself. They started with a handshake like Terry and I did. I remember back around the Rhythm Nation days when there [were] a lot of crazy negotiations going on for us to do the record. Clarence called up Jerry and said let’s get this deal done. Give these guys a million dollars. And literally the next week, the deal was done and we were in the studio recording.

Lewis: Jerry was an incredible man. Both he and Clarence were part of an incredible era of human beings. But they live on through all of us.

Jam: Whenever we win an award, God would be the first person we thank. And the next person we thank would be Clarence Avant, who was the earthly god for us.

Lewis: There are no words that I could use to adequately express my personal feelings for Clarence. But I always do simply say he’s the greatest man I’ve ever known.